Hi everyone, it’s me again, here is something I feel like I need to ask or maybe I just being OCD. Let me go straight to the story.
My mother-in law who tested negative for HBV in June 2024 had held and kissed my infant son on his forehead when he was 1 month old on September 21, 2024. My son received his 1st HBV vaccine dose when he was 1 day old.
The thing that got me thinking was because my father-in-law who was tested positive for HBV back in July 2024.
My thinking is that what if my mother-in-law contracted HBV from my father in-law after July 2024, and my son who only received the 1st dose for about 4 weeks might not developed enough immunity yet.
In addition, later in the day I saw my son has a scratch on his cheek.
My question is what is the possibility of exposure for my son in this case? because later in the day when my wife applied eczema cream on his face. I saw he has a scratch on his cheek. I mean can my wife smear the virus from his forehead to the scratch and expose him?
Dear @Jason2024,
The likelihood of exposure through this route is negligible. Remember that infection can be prevented by vaccination even after the exposure from HBV-positive mothers during birth where much more fluid is exchanged.
Hope this helps,
Thomas
thank you so much Dr. Tu
Hi again, so I wanted to run past this scenario with some experts as google can make your imagination run away.
Firstly I want to be so respectful about feelings of discrimination as the description I am about to relay is solely my possible occupational encounter with hep b and I understand infection and transmission can happen in so many various ways not just drug users.
Allow me to explain what happened at work.
I work for a client. Above my clients apartment live known heavy drug users and potentially dealers.
One day my client asked me to pick up some rubbish that had fallen from that apartment.
It appeared to be a cereal box and a iceypole wrapper.
I didn’t think too much about the cereal box so I picked it up with my bare hands, me and my client were then trying to figure out how to dispose it as her rubbish bin was much to small (big garbage bins live in the basement of the apartment complex)
In the process she touched the box directly and without washing hands changed her mind and touched the pack of rubbish bags and opened one up so we could put it in that.
Primary Issue: After I had I picked up the cereal box there was more rubbish underneath. It looked like some strange cardboard wrapper to something, since it was wet and soggy at this point I though maybe I should pick it up with something covering my hands, so i used one of those rubbish bags we had handled with unwashed hands.
The bag was quite big so the process was much more messy than if I were wearing gloves. I went to pick up the cardboard and in doing so also revealed a used tissue. I tried not to thing much of it so I folded the bag, quite messily and in doing to the bag and some bits of it that came into contact with the tissue went on my sleeves and top. Then I kept folding up the bag and put it all in the bin. I then went about my day, gardening in her patio space, picked up my groceries and handling my babies nappies I had bought that day.
In addition to this I wasn’t sure where I was stepping so it’s very likey as the space is so small that my shoes stepped in the same place the tissue had been as it right in a walk way.
I then went in my car and went home and walked around the house. My husband took my cross body bag off me and laid it on our entry table.
I don’t remember what I did with the top either, I think I dumped it somewhere and had a shower.
Later I started thinking about the possibility of coming into contact with body fluids through the tissue and called the hep b line and they informed me my concerns would be related to hep c or more likely hep b as in can be contained in blood as well as other certain body fluids.
I think I had a small cut on my hand that day.
So after that lengthy explanation. I became concerned not even for me so much but my two children. Due to my naivety in believing hep
B was just sexually contracted i decided not to vaccinate either of my children until they were older. I now realise there are many unexpected scenarios one may contract hep b.
My primary worry is that I may had brought the virus into my home via transmission from my:
Top (as I don’t know how I handled it and where I put in in my house when I got home that day)
Shoes (as I believe I may have stepped directly where the tissue had been)
Hand bag (as it touched my top)
Nappys (as it touched my top)
Anything else that was in contact with me that day. Including the car, car floor and seat belt.
I read online that the virus can live anywhere from a week to 9 months in certain conditions.
I hope this is making sense.
Because I feel very naive with had virus’s transmit and survive on things and surfaces I’m worried I could have brought it into my home and “spread it” around my house.
For example the floor, as I walked into it with possibly contaminated shoes, if my child cut themselves on the floor could the virus be there in this scenario and still be infective?
It’s been a week since all this happened and I have a toddler, so they are rolling on the ground, jumping on the couch with bare feet which ran around the house, eating, getting into bed, playing with all those toys etc. i hope you get what I’m saying. Essentially are all those surfaces now potentially contaminated too?
I think for all of us our children are our world and I feel so guilty not vaccinating them and potentially putting them at risk.
I am hoping to find out if the virus can essentially transmit from my top and shoes as they were the primary point of contact and I don’t understand how virus’s work.
Sorry that’s so long and convoluted. I have many more questions but let’s start there haha.
Thank you so much, I know I may sound silly and worried. But I am and I’m trying to be humble about this.
Thank you in advance if you take the time to actually read this and respond.
Hi @Caz-anonymous,
Welcome to the community, and sorry to hear about your ordeal. I agree with you, hepatitis B is not only transmitted sexually. Some people assume that HBV is only sexually transmitted, but that is not the only way. There are many other ways someone can be exposed to hepatitis B, such as mother-to-child transmission, sharing needles and other sharp objects, toothbrushes, receiving infected blood through transfusion, exposure to some workplace hazards, etc. Please get your child vaccinated; that is the best protection you can give them against this virus, plus it will give your family peace of mind. I will encourage you and your husband to get vaccinated if that is not already the case.
From what you shared, I doubt there is any exposure. First, we don’t know if the people upstairs have hepatitis B, and second, you did not mention the presence of any blood or bodily fluids. The wet tissue you picked up with the trash bag should not lead to an HBV infection. Remember that HBV is a bloodborne virus, so blood and body fluids that contain blood, such as semen, must be present for an exposure to happen. None of this was present.
Vaccination is the best way to protect your loved ones from HBV. Early childhood is the most vulnerable stage for young children. When we expose 10 infants or children to HBV, 9 out of 10 (90%) of children exposed to HBV will develop a chronic (lifelong) infection. Compared to 10 adults, when exposed, 1 out of 10 will develop a chronic infection. This is the main reason why HBV birth dose vaccinations are recommended and encouraged for all newborns. I hope you find this helpful. Bansah1
@Bansah1
Thank you so much for your information. I will definitely get them vaccinated, it’s our responsibility.
Thank you for your comforting words. It’s true I didn’t mention bodily fluids being in the tissue simply because I couldn’t tell, it was soggy and white, so for example I wouldn’t have been able to tell if there was semen or not, and also my understanding is that it can take just take a bit of blood to small to see to be infective and that’s where my concern lies. Therefore the hep b call line recommended the possibility.
Does that make sense?
That’s why I’m concerned about how far is the virus’s reach really? If an item touched an item touches an item?
It confuses me.
Still have more questions @ThomasTu and @john.tavis but making it digestible.
I am not a virologist or an HBV researcher, but a patient living with HBV. It’s true that the virus can stay active on surfaces for up 7-10 days or so. I doubt the skin is considered one of such surfaces because we bath and wash our hands daily. These activities should be enough to wash/clean it from the skin should we be exposed this way. Therefore, it’s less likely that this situation has exposed your family.
For someone in your house to get exposed, the virus must be present and the person need to have an opening on the skin for the virus to enter their body. I doubt this is the situation at home. The virus can’t enter the body on an intact skin.
I empathize with you and your concern is valid. Others will chime in and share their thoughts soon. Thanks, Bansah1
@Bansah1 thank you again so much for taking the time to respond. And for sharing your lived experience.
I completely get what you are saying, daily hygiene does reduce the exposure risks.
My kids are just always getting cuts or scrapes and then rolling and playing all over the floor haha. It’s life!
I did have one more question from you if that’s ok, you mentioned it’s a blood born virus, and it’s in blood and fluids containing blood like semen/vaginal fluids.
But my understanding is that semen or vaginal secretions have the virus present even with the absence of blood?
Not a problem at all. I am happy to share. Yes, we don’t see the blood in such fluids with our naked eyes but they do contain blood. This can be visible under a microscope. Check also hepbfoundation.org for additional information about HBV.
Thanks, Bansah1
Hi all,
@Bansah1 is correct about traces of blood being present in many fluids. Micro ruptures in the vaginal lining from an infection or minor abrasion or at skin of the penis (for example, from retracing the foreskin during an erection) can release traces of blood into the fluids. HBV can be at very high concentrations in the blood in some people, so it really doesn’t take much blood to render a fluid infectious.
HOWEVER-- not everyone has such high concentrations of HBV in their blood, and the virus cannot bore a hole through skin. So it takes direct contact between a contaminated surface/liquid with a cut on another person for transfer. There are so many variables (how much blood got into a fluid, how high concentration of HBV is there in the blood, how much is transferred, how much did HBV degrade before contact…) that it is impossible to make firm statements about infectivity of the situation you described. The best defense is to get vaccinated, and then test to make sure your anti-HBs antibodies are high enough.
John.
Hi @Caz-anonymous,
Yes, Hep B is present even in the absence of blood in semen and other fluids. However, it is at levels 100-1000 times lower compared to blood and do not represent realistic transmission routes in everyday circumstances (Joint Statement: Hepatitis B and hepatitis C are not transmitted through saliva | Hepatitis Australia)
Hope this helps,
Thomas
Thanks to you both @ThomasTu and @john.tavis
I agree.
I will only post on this thread now as having two is getting confusing haha.
Thomas on my other thread you mentioned the risk was negligible, so you believe the same with the above scenario?
John thank you, I completely get there is no scientific evidence for every single scenario we encounter that would be impossible to study.
But have there been any studies done by virologists with how virus’s act when transferred to surface to surface?
My assumption is that they slowly degrade and become less infective or not even there. For example is there any real world knowledge for the following.
Shoe in contact with bodily fluid, walked around outside, walked inside and now family and lived normally inside.
In my brain I’m imagining the virus to be everywhere, but that can’t logically be the case can it?
For example again, my daughter just cut her hand, but she had been all around the house when that happened. Given my main example as outlined above that I gave (again no visible blood however potential semem, however of course I didn’t inspect the whole thing) could there actually be enough virus present at that point to infect her? And would it still need to be in liquid form?
Basically I don’t understand if I should be worried and keep washing hands and sanitizing the place or if there is essentially no actual infect-able virus present.
From the tags you both have given me, I’m learning there needs to be a certain viral load and a certain amount of fluid for infection to take place.
And it needs to happen in the moment of fluid present and open cut directly, not really any second hand contact.
Another example of what I’m doing is (I haven’t wiped down the initial surface yet) my husband put a bag where my “infected” bag was. And I’ve put that second bag in my washing machine assuming maybe carries the same risk. So do I wipe down all the parts of the outside of machine in came into contact with? If this is foolish thinking, I’m happy to be called foolish.
Another example is the soap dispensers we use to wash from these day to day encounters. My kids play with those all the time and touch their hair and face and everything, I can’t give them showers everytime something like this happens. Would there be infectious virus present on those?
Or splash back on the sink after mopping the floor from my scenario with both my hands and mop. I hope these real world examples are making sense haha.
I know in the scheme of real world problems this may seem absurd, but I appreciate your responses regardless. I want to forgive myself for not being careful in this particular scenario and put this to rest. I know we can’t control all things in life, but I feel I could have controlled this and I didn’t.
Understanding things for me really helps.
(And for sure taking the vaccination recommendation seriously - It’s just that for my example it’s too late for that)
You can rest easy about this issue.
First, you don’t even know if the material you came into contact with had HBV on it…statistically speaking, it probably did not. Second, it was exposed to the environment outside for a while before you came into contact with it. That would certainly not have done HBV any good. Third, you walked around a while before you got into your house–each step would leave a small amount of anything on your shoes behind, so by the time you got inside there would be only a small fraction of what was originally there still on your shoes (microbiologists sometimes call something like that “solid phase dilution” because scientists tend to like silly terms). Finally, even though your kids are appropriately exuberant and get cuts and bruises sometimes (just like my younger son used to do when he was young–boy, did we use a lot of band-aids on that kid!), they are not running around the house rubbing an open sore on the floor. Finally, you’ve been diligent about cleaning. In sum, the infection risk in your house is vanishingly small, likely non-existent.
John.
Thank you @john.tavis
Grateful for your explanations haha.
Also, I never cleaned the spot my bag went (I know why didn’t I just do that) and my husband kept putting stuff there.
Is the vanishing effect the case here too? It’s been two weeks now anyways so I presume IF anything was there on a surface or a bag would not have been able to survive?
Bless you guys
Hi @Caz-anonymous, as John mentions, the risk of transmission even if there were somehow virus still there, is quite low/negligible.
Thomas